[00:00:20] Raad Seraj: Today my guest is Cesar Marin, who is a dynamic entrepreneur and esteemed former CNN producer, as well as the current owner and founder of Cultivating Wisdom. Cultivating Wisdom is a platform that promotes personal growth and enlightenment through the practice of microdosing. Cesar's commitment to wisdom cultivation has made him a respected figure in the psychedelic industry, and his visionary leadership continues to inspire and transform lives.

[00:00:40] raadseraj: Cesar, thanks for joining us.

[00:00:42] cesarmarin: Raad, thank you so much for having me. It's really, truly an honor and a pleasure to be here with you. I'm sure we've had conversations. You were one of these first persons when I got into the psychedelic space that I was like, mesmerized at what you were doing and just how you were leading forward.

[00:00:56] cesarmarin: And the fact that you were a different face that you somehow had something that I had, was really important. So just being here with you is, like I said, humbling and an honor.

[00:01:04] raadseraj: I really appreciate that. My friend, it's a pleasure to have you. And I'm very grateful for those kind comments. I want to start and one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you and I was very excited to have this conversation because in MTR, we try to spotlight underrepresented perspectives and lived experiences and the one you have is rare in the sense that you came to psychedelics.

[00:01:23] raadseraj: Not that it's a bad thing later on in your life, right? And you have this sort of a multi generational perspective on the use of The responsible use of psychedelics in different ways, and that is something I'm really, I'm passionate about because it's for everybody. It's not just for young people floating around.

[00:01:38] raadseraj: It's not like it. What I like about this conversation is that it really opens it up to open the conversation to how these medicines can be infused in our day to day lives. It's not for particular moments. Of course, it's for moments of transformation, but also it's for people. Your every day. What does it mean? So I want to start there first, and I want to give us a sense of what does it mean to transform in your fifties, right? You made a comment that living is wealth. And I

[00:02:03] raadseraj: really love that idea. I love that thought.

[00:02:05] raadseraj: So let's dig into that a little bit.

[00:02:07] raadseraj: Tell me why, why transform in your fifties and what does that even mean?

[00:02:10] cesarmarin: The reason why it happened to me, and it was a bit forced, and it's and sometimes that happens, sometimes the universe does this, but I realized I was living this life at 50 where you just, you go through the motions you're conforming where you are and with your job, and you sense that, 10 more years and, hopefully I'll get, Be able to retire, maybe I'll win the lottery from here to then.

[00:02:31] cesarmarin: And it's you just live in this circle of just mundaneness and you miss out on things that are going on around you. And like you said, it wasn't psychedelics came really late to me in my life. I was 54 when I had my first psychedelic experience and it opened me up to the sense of you can reinvent yourself at any age.

[00:02:48] cesarmarin: You really just, you have to believe in yourself. You have to have faith in yourself. You have to realize what story are you telling yourself? And that's what helps you to reinvent yourself. And there's a potential reinventing ourselves at any age, especially nowadays, especially with the times that we live in now, with the fact that with mass communications, with the ability to get our message out, whatever our messages and touch different people to re be able to reinvent yourself when you've already thought, a lot of people think, oh 50, it's almost over.

[00:03:16] cesarmarin: You know what? No, life's just beginning. Like my life, like gRaad I'm 56 and every single day is the best day of my life. Every single day I get to reinvent myself. Every single day I get to do something new. Every single day I get to look like there's a miracle around every corner. So it's just that sense of that at 50, really at any age, we have to start living.

[00:03:38] cesarmarin: We have to reinvent ourselves to people who are awake and aware of what's going on and what we're doing and how we touch people and how our interactions can change somebody's life in a second. I'm, and this whole newfoundness of myself. There's something I love, there's an exercise I love to do, which is, I go into the supermarket once or twice a week in the morning, and just say hi, good morning to everybody.

[00:04:01] cesarmarin: Not a bit for myself, but a bit also what you don't know who's Life, you're going to make difference. Someone had a bad day, whatever. And just by telling them, have a good morning, have a good day. It could change somebody's perspective on life. So it's the idea, Raad, that really you can reinvent yourself at any age.

[00:04:18] cesarmarin: I did it. I was able to do it. And I was able to do it through a hard turn in my life. As you said, I worked at CNN and I worked at CNN for 25 years, which meant I was at that job for most of my, if not more of half of my adult life. That's where I was. That's what, that identified me. And it was taken away from me.

[00:04:37] cesarmarin: It was not taken away. It was because I did something wrong. Or because it was a layoff. It was a business. It's just the way it happens. It's just the way we live in. And I could have sat there. Literally in that sea of depression. Oh if I would have done this, it would have done before we're taking the promotion to the other producer, did he get fired?

[00:04:53] cesarmarin: Did he not get fired or some storm of anxiety? What's going to happen? What's going to happen next? But it was, no, I was able to reawaken to the reality of right now and realize that I can reinvent myself every day. Every day is a new opportunity to be a new, better me.

[00:05:09] raadseraj: you I think, indicated and we'll talk about, the transformational moment and what the impetus was for that. But you indicated that. had lived till the age of 54, like glazing over stuff.

[00:05:21] raadseraj: And I think a lot of us can resonate with that in whatever age, because adult life, we tend to be boxed into things and

[00:05:27] raadseraj: then you get glued to things, glued to material things and so on. What do you think, what do you attribute to that glazing over? What do you think what happened to you that you live like, almost like reflexively, like you're programmed. 

[00:05:39] cesarmarin: There was a couple things. There was a couple of things. One and I think it's something that we all have in common. All the ones that have not been awakened yet. And it's conformity. You conform. This is what it is. It's not, I can't you tell yourself this story that this is fine.

[00:05:54] cesarmarin: This is okay. I'm fine. I'll retire and whatever. And for me, it was a real life of And don't get me wrong. I have a wonderful life. I have three amazing children. I had a great job at CNN. It wasn't like I was like, in a coal mine or anything, but you just, you get conformity kicks in.

[00:06:11] cesarmarin: And at the time I also had I'm not going to call it the affliction, but I did have an anchor, which was a dependency to cannabis and cannabis in particular is like many other plant medicines when used without intentions. Can lead you down wrong ways like any medicine without intentions, right?

[00:06:31] cesarmarin: And that's the world I lived in a bit, right? I got up, got high, went to work, got high. And I was just I was escaping. I was escaping my reality of my doldrum life. You know what I mean? Because I didn't have a Ferrari. Because I didn't have a two million dollar house. Because I didn't have a 50 inch TV.

[00:06:45] cesarmarin: Because whatever we would program that was what's important. That's the conformist life that I lived in. Continuously, right? Even though I had great things around me, right? I have my health, which is the most important thing. I have my family, right? I have a great partner. It's, but it was just, there was no alive.

[00:07:05] cesarmarin: There was no sense of every day is the best day of my life. That did not exist. That part did not exist in my life before my, what I call, my awakening. It wasn't until then that I got a sense of, wait a minute, hold on a second. I got to take advantage of everything that's around me, whether it's the smells, whether it's the trees, whether it's the air, whether it's, my, my feet on the ground, whatever it is.

[00:07:29] cesarmarin: I just, I have to live this moment right here because it's the only one that exists. And before I wasn't doing that, before I was living in the past, Oh, you know what? Yeah, but times are better. We're in the future. I know, whatever. We're going to do this and we'll do that. No. It was that moment of living in the present moment.

[00:07:46] cesarmarin: Continuously. And it's hard. Of course it's hard. Because we have future plans. You know what I mean? We got, we're working on this, we're working on that. Because you're learning from the lessons from the past. Hey, you know what? I did this wrong. Maybe I'll do this. But it's that sense that sometimes we get on these hamster wheels of the past.

[00:08:03] cesarmarin: And we relive these stories again. If I would've done this, if I would've done that. If I would've turned, a left turn instead of a right turn down there, I wouldn't have crashed. You know what I mean? If my mom would've been a man, she would've been my dad. I'm situated. So it's one of those. But to answer your question, the difference between then and now is that I really get a sense that every day is the best day of my life.

[00:08:22] raadseraj: How did your children experience you before and after? So I think a lot of, I can imagine my dad's 74 and I sometimes I think like when did he even turn 50 and holy shit, he's 74 now. It's wild.

[00:08:34] cesarmarin: Yeah, in a second, 

[00:08:35] raadseraj: but there's also this thing about my dad is I love him to death, but he also annoys me, , so I'm

[00:08:39] raadseraj: wondering like, how did your kids experience you before your, let's say, before your, you had your moment of transformation 

[00:08:46] cesarmarin: That's a great question. That's a really good question. I'm trying to reflect because my, my biggest title, the title that I wear the proudest, always is dad. That's the proudest title that I wear. That's the proudest accomplishment I feel that I have as a human was to have these three children.

[00:09:01] cesarmarin: So they, they always saw this loving, caring father, right? Who was there for them, who hugged them. That has not changed. That hasn't changed at all. They do see this new sense of this dad that's dude, he's doing it for himself, man before he was like this sailor on this ship, and now if he had the fish, he fished, and if he had the mop, he mopped, but now he's like the captain of his own ship.

[00:09:23] cesarmarin: That's like pretty cool, and in all of this, again, my reawakening, my awakening, my, my reinvention, Comes through psychedelics. My, what I talk about is psychedelics. There's mushrooms pretty much everywhere I go in one way or another because it's become part of my world. And it's the sense of this mission of talking about the responsible use of it.

[00:09:42] cesarmarin: But, imagine when you're teenage kids, when you're a teenage daughter, when you're kids in their 20, you're like, wait a minute, you're doing what? Hold on a second, dad. Wait a minute. Let me get this correct. You're gonna start using psychedelics? Really? I just, I don't understand.

[00:09:56] cesarmarin: And wait, hold on a second. And you're gonna start an apparel company? For people to manifest that they're doing something illegal? What what the f seriously? Have you thought this out? Have you, I'm just asking, right? And the oldest one who's now 28, He's lived the world.

[00:10:11] cesarmarin: You know what I mean? He's lived in New York. He's lived in Paris. To him it was like, okay, dad's just evolving, right? To my middle son, who's in the army, to him it's still, he doesn't jaywalk. You know what I mean? To him it's I get it, dad. I see what you're doing. I'm not gonna wear your apparel.

[00:10:27] cesarmarin: I gotta wear it. You know what I mean? But thank you, because I know you see me and you're trying to work in a way to help vets. Or you're at least bringing awareness to the situation with veterans. So thank you for doing that. But my daughter was the, my daughter was the biggest one that was hard to convince.

[00:10:44] cesarmarin: The biggest one. You know what I mean? At 19, Dad, what are you doing? Now she wears our beanies on campus. You know what I mean? It was, and it's funny, BRaad, because, My first big journey, my first big journey with psilocybin there was this sense of listening and hearing these messages of, you don't need your kid's approval.

[00:11:02] cesarmarin: You don't. They might not walk by your side right now, but they're always going to walk behind you, and eventually, they're going to come up and walk by your side when they see the change, when they see what you're doing, when they see what your mission is, when they see that this isn't some, let's go get high, let's go, no.

[00:11:17] cesarmarin: They're there's something to this. That's that to them is this sense of this new dad, right? But I'm still dad. I'm still, I'm still gonna be, like you said, annoying, because, I'm gonna ask you dude, like, how much did you drink? Whatever dads do, right?

[00:11:31] cesarmarin: That's we're always gonna be that. Or because, but sometimes and I catch myself sometimes when I'm with my dad, because my parents live in Miami, I live in Atlanta. So it's not very often I get to spend time with him. I try to go down as often as possible because it's not that far.

[00:11:44] cesarmarin: But sometimes, like you said, you do catch yourself like, God, that really annoys me that he does that but he's my dad, and, I hope that I don't get that sense How many more hugs do we have? We don't know. No. You know what I mean? It's I get that.

[00:11:57] cesarmarin: I get that sense of sometimes dads are like, okay, but I'm sure I'm not sure if you've seen this or not. There's sometimes these things I once caught myself standing like in a certain way, right? And I'm like, what happened? I'm like, why do I stand that way? And I look over and my dad was standing the same way.

[00:12:11] cesarmarin: So sometimes enough, like he's so annoying when he stands like that. And there I am standing like that.

[00:12:18] raadseraj: it's you know, it's funny like it's funny to say that. because I don't know what it is about the way I walk but every fucking pair of shoes that I have The sole of the shoe on the bottom right is always gone for what it's like a steep angle

[00:12:33] raadseraj: It's like it's gone at an angle. And of course, I look at my dad's shoes same fucking thing and i'm like, what the hell? It's is it about the way we both walk and what I get? What did I get from him that our shoes are all fucked up? Anyway no 

[00:12:45] cesarmarin: That's a great story. That's a great story. And again, it's it's the adage that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. You know what I mean? It's yeah. Yeah. 

[00:12:52] raadseraj: no, I agree with you and it's it's one of those things where I think as you age You like embody and you reconcile and you accept and you almost also like celebrate, right?

[00:13:02] raadseraj: Because we are our, parents, Children and those of us who are lucky to have like good homes and good parenting and even through adversity and hardship and stuff like that. I'm curious. One more question before we move on. Why was it so difficult for your daughter to accept it? Was she worried for

[00:13:18] cesarmarin: I, my safety. Yeah for the safety. For what happens if the cops stop you? You're gonna get arrested. And if you get arrested, you're gonna go to jail. And then, what do I do with the dead in jail? You know what I mean? At the same time, it's sometimes like I tell her, Look, I'm not, I'm, I don't sell any products.

[00:13:35] cesarmarin: And I don't I sell a lifestyle, right? And it's that lifestyle of responsibly and with intentions using psychedelics as life performance enhancers. That's what I do, right? And at the same time guide people into, how to create a safe and effective microdosing practice because it's about education.

[00:13:55] cesarmarin: It's not, don't microdose because you heard, Hey, Cesar Marin microdose and he changed his life around. So it's got to help me. No, that's not what it's about. It's educate yourself. And if the apparel does that, if the, through the apparel, someone says a Cesar shirt, this is microdosing on and someone's Oh, you microdose.

[00:14:10] cesarmarin: I've heard about that. I've read about that. So she gets that now and you're right that it's that sense of her, and look. I microdose, so of course there's psilocybin here. How else could I microdose? And there's times that she's come to the house and she's so what would happen if the cops knocked on the door?

[00:14:26] cesarmarin: And I'm like, what, they're probably looking for something totally else. Besides, a couple of capsules of could be lines made, but again, it's just it's her, it's her her sense of what happens dad? If something happens, 

[00:14:39] raadseraj: yeah. And I understand that. I think it's also like really funny, right? With like law enforcement is did you ever see a group of people smoke a bunch of weed and then get violent? No, they're like too stoned to move and they want a pizza, right? And it's same thing with psychedelics and alcohol.

[00:14:53] raadseraj: Hey, you can

[00:14:54] cesarmarin: Oh. Drink all You 

[00:14:55] raadseraj: Go be violent. go,

[00:14:56] raadseraj: shoot people. 

[00:14:56] cesarmarin: go crash into a tree. Go do whatever. 

[00:14:59] raadseraj: No problem, 

[00:15:00] cesarmarin: No, that's all good. 

[00:15:01] raadseraj: That's all good. 

[00:15:02] cesarmarin: Yeah. . 

[00:15:03] raadseraj: Okay. So let's talk about this particular moment.

[00:15:05] raadseraj: You're 54, you got let go from CNN and you're I imagine you're questioning who are you? What do you do?

[00:15:12] raadseraj: What now? I'm 54. And I'm sure there's like this existential crisis that kind of like bubbles up. But there's also this other aspect that again, something you also mentioned in our previous call and I love this idea because I frequently talk about this is, I also grew up with very

[00:15:28] raadseraj: little and so did you and, and the way you put it is I grew up poor, but I worked so much, my relationships became poor. This is a really interesting

[00:15:37] raadseraj: idea because my, the similar saying that I have is that if you're an immigrant, the ethos is work hard, but if you're happy, you're not working hard enough, right? So tell me about what happened at 54. I also want to hear about this perspective of what does happiness and joy and quality of relationships mean?

[00:15:53] cesarmarin: I didn't grow up with much in the sense of my, my parents came here in the seventies where it was, I'm not going to say easier for immigrants, but it was a little bit more accepted, right? They could make a life for themselves. Columbia. They came from Columbia. I was four years old.

[00:16:10] cesarmarin: And my parents were very hard workers. You know what I mean? My dad worked hard. My mom came, she had some entrepreneurship to herself and she created her small little business. And then, that business grew and it continued to grow. So it was, poor in the sense of There was always love, right?

[00:16:25] cesarmarin: So there was, it was just a sense of sometimes it's you, you see some people that have everything right. That have it's just, there's a difference between a want and a need, right in my house, there was more needs than wants, even though there was wants. My mom had a business and my mom, being an only child, there was always something there.

[00:16:42] cesarmarin: But you do get the sense of you need to work so hard that you work so hard that the relationship, which is the real wealth. The wealth is not the TVs you have. The wealth is not the cars you have. The wealth is not the house you have. The wealth is the relationship that you have with the people around you

[00:16:59] cesarmarin: that's wealth. That's true wealth. And sometimes we're in this grind of work, that we don't even, we don't even realize that that maybe we're not paying attention to our kids. That maybe, we need to slow down and pay attention to our partner for whatever they need.

[00:17:13] cesarmarin: And that's where that dynamic was a bit shattered and broken in my earlier part of my life. And it was I was lucky enough, I was, I got divorced about five years ago. I was lucky enough to find someone incredibly important in my life who's been rock solid.

[00:17:27] cesarmarin: And she was part of this and she's changed my way of thinkings in a lot of things and she's been instrumental in, in, in this new shape that I have. And it was that awakening, which happened at the age of 54. And it was it's, I love. I was really lucky because the medicine knew when to come to me.

[00:17:46] cesarmarin: And I'm a big believer in that. I'm a big believer because it, it all happened very subsequent. The order of things happening were beautiful. It was just, it was divine universe intervening when it needed to without me having to suffer in the sense of my, my close. Relative of mine has an experience at Martha's vineyards.

[00:18:07] cesarmarin: 4th of July, 2022. They say, Oh my God, I felt like a child. You don't understand my kids who an hour before I wanted to kill them. Like I realized how beautifully were my husband. I realized how lucky I am to have this person. And at that time, obviously the cannabis use was to the point where it's like, Wasn't really doing much.

[00:18:26] cesarmarin: And I mean it wasn't like I was really getting high so it's a sense of wait a minute. Maybe there's whoa. Hold on a second. What is this new high? A couple of weeks later, I'm on a bike ride here in Atlanta with a whole bunch of people. A friend of mine is riding next to me and he's got a smile from ear to ear and I'm like, Dude, you okay?

[00:18:41] cesarmarin: He's I just had some mushrooms and I feel like a child, like I'm riding my bike for the first time. And I was like, what are you even talking about? What is this mushrooms? And again, like I said, I'd never had a psychedelic experience, right? It was, I was programmed. It's bad. It's horrible. That's for hippies.

[00:18:54] cesarmarin: That's for stoners. That's for, grateful debt, whatever it is. No, you don't want to do that. You don't want to touch that stuff. No way. No, you people go crazy. And I asked my friend, I go so do you know how I can get these mushrooms?

[00:19:08] cesarmarin: And he looks at me, he goes, these bikes don't pay for themselves.

[00:19:11] cesarmarin: And I was like, wait a minute.

[00:19:13] cesarmarin: So the mushrooms say, Hey, listen to this story. Hey, listen to this other story. And by the way, that dude can get him for you. What are the odds? What are the chances? And it was right then when I have this awakening. This is back in November of 2022. And at that time as I have this awakening and I start to microdose, part of the intentions, or not part of the intentions when I started my microdosing practice on November 7th, 2022.

[00:19:44] cesarmarin: Number one, Was stop the cannabis, stop having the cannabis control. You control the cannabis, you control the cannabis. You can say not today, not right now, maybe later. I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm not gonna say I'm never going to smoke cannabis again. You know what I mean?

[00:20:01] cesarmarin: It's never is a hard word, but right now, no, right now I'm okay. So the intentions were give yourself that. Consciousness to be able to do that. And number two, it was like, something's going to happen, man. I get the sense that I'm a number on a spreadsheet somewhere in some offices in New York with a whole bunch of suits going number 67.

[00:20:21] cesarmarin: How much, how long has he been here? How much is he making? Slice that that's. Once that's gone and it was like, okay, wait, that's coming. What's going to happen? So the intentions were like, what's going to happen after CNN? I'm not going to be here for 10 years. And you're going to roll me down the stairs.

[00:20:37] cesarmarin: They thank you for your service, Cesar. You know what I mean? Something's got to happen. I got to do something for myself. There was this urgency of you got to do something. And that's when the whole vision of cultivating wisdom was born. And I start to manifest and Raad. Imagine it.

[00:20:50] cesarmarin: I'm at CNN talking to people. About psychedelics and about drugs and the fact that I'm micro dosing right now. It's people are like, are you serious? You're sitting here telling us that you're like, you're, yes, because you don't understand this is really helping people. Like I stopped using cannabis.

[00:21:07] cesarmarin: I was using cannabis 24 7 and I was able to be conscious enough to say not right now. So this is really working, and it was funny because at that time, Sanjay Gupta had done a story, Johns Hopkins had just released a study, so it was like, there was some validation to it, and I was like, wait a minute, yeah, this is what I'm doing.

[00:21:24] cesarmarin: Fortunately, the medicine gave me this opportunity to say, hey, you know what, Cesar, 25 year chapter. And we're going to open up this new one. So I was never in that desperation of what am I going to do next? And it could have happened. And Raad, if I think about it and people have asked me, Cesar, what have been of your life if psychedelics wouldn't have come when they came?

[00:21:47] cesarmarin: And I'm like, I honestly don't know. I fear to think what that could have looked like. I fear to think that person without a job. Smoking cannabis 24 7 escaping trying to see where he was that's that's scary to think and that would have been me Who's hiring a 55 year old producer? Nobody no TV's done.

[00:22:08] cesarmarin: Nobody watches TV anymore. Nobody says yeah. Hey, let's sit down at 6 o'clock and watch wolf blitzer Nobody does it doesn't happen So I could have lived that, but I was incredibly lucky. Like I was incredibly, the universe blessed me in a way and said, here, we're going to open your mind to these things that are being used.

[00:22:27] cesarmarin: And it's just so ha everything happened at such a look at my awakening happened. Raad was right when Wonderland was happening in 2022. So imagine I started Googling and stuff and I'm like, wait a minute, they're having like a super bowl of psychedelics. They're having this huge conference in Miami, and it's all these beautiful people, and it's all these wonderful stuff, and look at all these products, and look at Rat, and look at this person, and I'm going to follow him, and I'm like, wait a minute this isn't the psychedelics of the 60's, no, wait a minute, this is the psychedelics of Johns Hopkins University, and this is the psychedelics of NYU, and this is the psychedelics of every university, wait a minute, the, one of the biggest universities in Atlanta has a whole Dedicated to psychedelics.

[00:23:07] cesarmarin: Not one or two professors teaching psychedelic history. No. Like a whole division. And I was like, okay, this is, I'm in the right place. I was fortunate enough that I didn't have to suffer that. Now, again, that doesn't mean that I don't sometimes wake up going, What am I doing? What, like, where, like, where is this going?

[00:23:24] cesarmarin: Is this really going to happen? And then you see psychedelic companies, obviously people in biotech and stuff like that, which is a lot of money. And when you invest a lot of money, you roll big dice. And if you don't hit the right dice. You can go under. So it's all that stuff. But then I go, why can't my apparel be sold at Macy's?

[00:23:41] cesarmarin: It's not, doesn't say go do a line of blow. It's like much love and just as micro dosing and it's just psilocybin changed my life. It's so I was lucky, right? I really was to be able to have the universe put me in a place where right now I am where I am. But, like all of us, I've learned from the past, I've learned from those suffering moments, I've learned from that sense of identity.

[00:24:05] cesarmarin: But right now, it's my identity is me, and what I have is what I have, and what I have is what I need, and who I am is who I am. Yeah.

[00:24:19] raadseraj: I think one, one thing that we, that I've been thinking about a lot because I've had a number of conversations actually with friends and people I just met around cannabis use.

[00:24:29] raadseraj: And I don't like, I don't put any substance on a pedal, a pedestal or or any drug or any medicine on a pedestal.

[00:24:36] raadseraj: It's all about the relationship to the substance, right?

[00:24:39] raadseraj: I enjoy a drink. I don't think alcohol is bad. But of course, A bad relationship to the alcohol could have really terrible, devastating outcomes,

[00:24:46] raadseraj: right? I think the same thing with cannabis. And, I used to smoke a ton in university

[00:24:51] raadseraj: and it wasn't until like year four that I recognized that everything around me was crashing. Cause you know what, when you're high on, on, on cannabis, you're just like, okay, things going to shit.

[00:25:03] cesarmarin: Yeah, you don't care, everything's

[00:25:04] raadseraj: yeah. What? Yeah. It's 

[00:25:08] cesarmarin: there's a lot of ah, 

[00:25:08] raadseraj: lot of, escapism. 

[00:25:09] cesarmarin: And it's, and 

[00:25:10] raadseraj: we talk about it enough

[00:25:11] cesarmarin: No!

[00:25:12] raadseraj: And there's this, there's I think an overlap with psychedelics too. And of course it depends on what substance you're talking about. But this sort of this diffuse effect that it has, this sort of lifestyle addiction that you have.

[00:25:26] raadseraj: With cannabis could apply to mushrooms could apply to micro dosing and that's I think it's really worth thinking about

[00:25:33] raadseraj: Especially if you're talking about, responsible use if you're talking about like education take, you know educated use of these substances And we should not take for granted that you know The ability to have these substance talk about them is privileged still

[00:25:46] raadseraj: Because it is criminalized heavily in a lot of places, the US particularly. I think in Canada, it's just, it's weird. I don't,

[00:25:53] raadseraj: there's very few Canadians that I talked to that are like, I never ate mushrooms and walked in the forest. It's like every fucking

[00:25:57] cesarmarin: Yeah, it's part of the yeah.

[00:25:59] raadseraj: But tell me a little bit of the sort of, what's been your, how do you, looking back, how do you, Process that I know it's escapism, but there's something else and I see that see it a lot in people now that cannabis has been Cannabis use has been normalized. It's almost

[00:26:14] raadseraj: gone the other way It's crazy like how and it's it's very discreet. You'll have a little vape

[00:26:19] raadseraj: smoke here smoke there 

[00:26:21] cesarmarin: Yeah. Yeah. That's the other thing. Look, it's it's a different world, obviously, than when I grew up, right? It's like we said kids can kids before, like my age, if you wanted to use cannabis, you in your house, you literally had to go in the bathroom, open the window, whatever, 

[00:26:36] raadseraj: hole in a bottle and then do compressions in the bathroom, that kind of shit. 

[00:26:40] cesarmarin: Blow it out, whatever.

[00:26:41] cesarmarin: Now, nowadays kids take a gummy, they take a gummy, in their living room and whatever. So it's a very nonchalant use of cannabis. And the fact that, who would have ever thought, if ten years ago, Raad, someone had said, look, you're going to be able to drive up to a gas station in the United States.

[00:26:59] cesarmarin: And the gas station is gonna have more cannabis products than lottery tickets. More cannabis products than lottery tickets. That's crazy. And it's not oh, it's a, it's literally cannabis. It's THC and then they sell it as THCA, but it's still THC.

[00:27:18] cesarmarin: It, yes, it doesn't have Delta nine or it has Delta nine when you, when it burns.

[00:27:21] cesarmarin: So it's it's, you're right. It's become very, and the problem when that happens is that when substances, whatever substances use without intentions, that's when problems can arrive. Awesome. You know what you want to have a drink? Cause you, what are your intentions? My intention, I'm going to have, I'm going to have some friends over and we're going to have a one or two and we enjoy ourselves.

[00:27:42] cesarmarin: No one ever, I'm sure it's college, my intentions is to get shit face. Good luck with that. I hope you make it back okay. I hope you don't fall. I hope you don't break something. I hope you're gonna fight. The possibilities of what could happen are just,

[00:27:53] cesarmarin: I'm not sure if those should be your intentions.

[00:27:55] cesarmarin: But when used with intentions, and that's the problem when I can go in a gas station, pick up a vape, get in my car, smoke my vape. What's the intention? What are you using me for? Now for me, the relationship I have with cannabis, the respect I have for it, is more a sense of you know what?

[00:28:12] cesarmarin: What are the intentions? I got a couple friends over, we're hanging out, we just had a good festival, we're chilling. My intentions are to have a good time with my friends, right? But before, there was no intentions, it was just the cannabis saying get high. Get high for what? Not just don't worry.

[00:28:26] cesarmarin: Can I, we'll figure that out tomorrow. And it's funny cause I tell people even in those lows, like really good highs, right? Where you're like, you have these ideas and you have whatever the next morning or either you totally forgot what the hell they were or they're not good ideas.

[00:28:41] cesarmarin: You're like, that was 

[00:28:42] raadseraj: rarely good ideas. 

[00:28:43] cesarmarin: That was, what was I thinking? What was I high? Yeah it's. I hope we have more education, especially with psychedelics, because again, there's it's, there, there are two different things and that's why it's, I'm not a big fan of comparing, Hey, you know what the cannabis industry did it this way, so let's make sure the psychedelic does it also.

[00:29:02] cesarmarin: And when you go around and packages thing for psilocybin that looks like starburst or looks like, like kids candies, it's you know what, I'm not sure how responsible that is. You know what I mean? And it was funny. Look, the other day a woman sent me a message.

[00:29:17] cesarmarin: And she said she went her and her husband went to a vape shop picked up some scooby doo looking Amanita mushroom packaging thing and she literally asked me are these okay for microdosing and I was like Let me think for a second. No

[00:29:32] cesarmarin: no. So it's important that educational part is really important. Let's, you said it, right? This isn't a psychedelics are for everybody. Psychedelics are going to change the world. Psychedelics are going to save the world. Psychedelics. No, there's a lot of things. And there's, and as we open up this Pandora's box and it opens up even more, there's a whole bunch of other things we're going to have to deal with.

[00:29:50] cesarmarin: And we're gonna have to deal with, one more people in lower marginalized or lower served communities. We either want to. Find some healing, some awakening or try to, because I'm sure there's a difference between if someone of color gets caught with a pound of mushrooms, then if someone who's white, it's caught with eight pounds of mushrooms, so it's those,

[00:30:12] raadseraj: idea. No, go on 

[00:30:13] cesarmarin: no, those educational components, especially for Latinos, the African American community, that community, it's so underserved that they feel underrepresented always. This is a space where they really feel underrepresented, so if they do it wrong, I don't want to even think about that.

[00:30:32] raadseraj: I think this is a very critical point and I'm really glad you brought it up because, you think about I'm in tech I spend a lot of time in tech, and everybody talks about how Steve Jobs created Apple after doing LSD but here's Steve Jobs white looking can talk openly about doing acid and then building a trillion dollar company Right. If you're, from the margins, low income neighborhoods, if you're a person of color, you smoke, you talk about smoking a joint. Guess what? You got 10 cops jumping

[00:31:03] raadseraj: over you, stomping you to death, probably.

[00:31:05] raadseraj: So I think the politics of consciousness is really interesting, right?

[00:31:08] raadseraj: Who is allowed to alter their consciousness? Who has access to what forms of, consciousness altering substances? I think this one's really important. I'm gonna ask you Given where you are now, and you talk a lot about education, I think, to me, cultivating wisdom is essentially about education.

[00:31:23] raadseraj: It's about talking about the responsible use of psychedelics and so on. How would you address know this is a question of responsible use to say someone like your parents, your Colombian parents who've been in the U. S. for a while, versus the Latino community, versus the psychedelic community, who I think is very open, but this is not, I don't think the psychedelic community is indicative of the challenge we have, ahead of us,

[00:31:47] raadseraj: because we're talking about people who've been, who, It's not that they don't want to, but the fear is really real 

[00:31:54] cesarmarin: The fear is real.

[00:31:55] raadseraj: again, so how would you tell me a little bit about your approach would be to, again, talking to someone like your parents versus your Latino community, Colombian community and so on.

[00:32:03] cesarmarin: I think the first thing that needs to be talked about is transformation, and people see the transformation. My, my parents are like, you talk differently, like you act different, in a better way. Like in a total better way. So that's the first part of the first 

[00:32:16] raadseraj: What's the difference? What do you mean? I think this is really important.

[00:32:18] cesarmarin: Difference in, 

[00:32:19] raadseraj: did this sense? What did this 

[00:32:20] cesarmarin: so difference in one, my confidence in myself and not cocky confidence.

[00:32:26] cesarmarin: No, that's not arrogance confidence, but the sense of you can do it, like you can do this, like you, you can do this. And it was especially my mother who. Like I said, came to this country with one hand in the front, one hand in the back and made it for herself, but because she was an entrepreneur, she didn't, she wasn't anybody's employee.

[00:32:45] cesarmarin: She was the boss. She was the boss, right? And a good boss, a good leader with heart who opened up to people who said you don't have how to pay me today. Don't worry. We'll figure that out later. So for her, that sense of dude, start your own business. I know I'm fine, dude. You're never going to work as hard for something until it's yours.

[00:33:06] cesarmarin: No, I'm fine, mom. Just leave. I'll work at CNN. Mom, I work at CNN. What do you want from me? Oh, I want you to be your own boss. I want you to control what you're doing. I don't want you to have to worry if you're going to get laid off or not. Now she sees it. Now she's wait a minute. And it's funny because look, this is a great story.

[00:33:24] cesarmarin: And I'm not sure if I shared this with you. When I tell my parents, when I tell my mom, that cannabis dependency I deal with, she looked at me, she said I'm your fucking mother. Of course I do. I said, okay, let's start there. I said mom, I'm going to start using psychedelics. Curb my cannabis addiction.

[00:33:41] cesarmarin: She was like you crazy are you serious? What the fuck Cesar?

[00:33:48] cesarmarin: What's wrong with have you smoked that much weed? That you think that's the solution. Have you seen how old you are? Have you seen it? You're you have three kids. She was literally like, what have I done? What she was upset at me.

[00:34:01] cesarmarin: She was upset at herself. She was just like psychedelics. Really? That's what you're doing. And it was crazy. She called Isabel and she asked her and Isabel said, I'm going to be honest with you before he's escaping. He was just at escape mode. Now he's like present now. He's okay, wait a minute.

[00:34:18] cesarmarin: Hold on a second. I got to do something. Let's do something. And it's crazy because a month after that conversation with my mom, I've started my business, I have an LLC. I have a vision. I have something she, and we've now had more conversations. She's in Columbia. And she sees this pendant and she buys it for me, and she brings it back and she hands it to me. And she says, I'm so proud of what you're doing. I was like, wait a minute. My parents are proud of the fact that you psychedelics, like what a turnaround. The change is what the turnaround comes. And then there's other little tools, right? I sat my parents down and said, let's watch fantastic fun guy.

[00:34:55] cesarmarin: Just so you get a sense of what I'm talking about. And it was funny. It was when we turned the T up, mom goes. I thought they were the enemies like the mushrooms are the heroes like the mushrooms could like potentially save the world with oil spills and you know recycling and a whole bunch of other stuff and cure people and make people awaken.

[00:35:14] cesarmarin: So it's that it's and the other thing is and this is important for all of us in this minority whatever minority we are. Whatever minority we are, that if this is what we're doing, that we become that face for that minority. Why are a lot of Latinos scared? Because I don't see any other Latinos talking about psychedelics.

[00:35:34] cesarmarin: Why are African Americans scared? Because it's all, there's two guys, maybe three guys, maybe talking about this, so I don't, I know. It's a bunch of white people. It's a bunch of privileged people. It's a bunch of people who have 24, 000 to go get a psilocybin treatment in Oregon. So where do we fit in?

[00:35:51] cesarmarin: Where does the lower, underserved communities fit in? Are they not gonna be healed? Are they not going to have, they'll have the access to the medicine, of course, because you can grow mushrooms anywhere, but will they understand how to use them? Will they hear someone in their language and their voice and their tone in there?

[00:36:08] cesarmarin: Look, I speak to people who look like me. I speak to people who have lost their job. I speak to people who have been divorced. I speak to people whose kids are older. I speak to people who've gotten to 50 and gone 50 that way. I don't know how many is left this way. I speak to those people. So speak to your people.

[00:36:25] cesarmarin: Speak to your people and show them the change. Because here's the other thing, Raad. And it's I tell people I worked in mass media long enough to know that they're just waiting for one headline. You're just waiting for pilot take shroom, tries it down plane. They love that shit.

[00:36:43] cesarmarin: They, so let's bombard them with positive stories. Entrepreneur starts, a healing space to help underprivileged people. You know what I mean? Thought leader has African American takes acid and starts a brand new company, right? Whatever that story is it's, that's how we, that's how we get to these communities by showing us, they're not going to, they're not going to trust people that don't look like them.

[00:37:05] cesarmarin: That's just, that's the way it is, because we don't know if you're programming us, if you're trying to steal from us, if you're trying to hoodwink us, if you're trying to program them, but if they see people like I can relate to. Okay, wait a minute then. And that's why, again, for me, this first year was like, okay let's do something.

[00:37:20] cesarmarin: Let's have a platform. Let's create this apparel store. Let's, let's launch something so we can teach people, through the ebook, let's do some stuff, but I know, BRaad, I know that I have a responsibility to the Latin American community. I know I do to somehow share this message with them also to show them that, Hey, you know what?

[00:37:40] cesarmarin: Use responsibly. Use with intentions. These substances could help you. So it's important. And that's how we reached it. We reached those communities by talking to them in their language and showing them people that look like them because you've been to conferences, brother.

[00:37:55] raadseraj: Oh, yeah.

[00:37:55] cesarmarin: And we're this, and look, I don't particularly look Latino, like I could pass off or, anywhere else, but, but the people that stood out for being different were really small. And hopefully that'll change. Hopefully, little by little that'll change, but a lot of things we need that education and that's why that education is so pivotal.

[00:38:14] raadseraj: I love everything you've said and I think I couldn't agree with you more. I think. There's a lot of ways you can fix structural systemic issues, but the first one starts with inspiration,

[00:38:23] cesarmarin: Yeah.

[00:38:24] raadseraj: You know in trying to inspire and reach our own communities. That's where it starts, right? And I

[00:38:29] raadseraj: try to do that for my own community. All good, man.

[00:38:32] cesarmarin: You want me to end, so why don't you just come 

[00:38:34] raadseraj: No, it's all good. 

[00:38:35] cesarmarin: Alright, okay, you got it yeah, alright.

[00:38:37] raadseraj: Now I was saying that I love what you said. I think I couldn't agree with you more There's a lot of ways to fix structural and systemic problems but the first Way could be just trying to inspire others to open their minds. And it starts with ourselves,

[00:38:50] raadseraj: right? There's nobody else out to help us, in our communities. And if you believe in something enough, we have to talk about it. We have to be the ones that leads the way because this is, this, I think for minorities and underrepresented communities, you have not only the current issues, which is stigma, criminalization access, but also historical, issues or ancestral sort of stacks and stacked on ancestral

[00:39:15] raadseraj: problems that have like epigenetically passed through generations and stuff, right?

[00:39:18] raadseraj: So

[00:39:19] cesarmarin: correct.

[00:39:20] raadseraj: it's really important to first start with talking about what is done for you. And I couldn't agree with you more again. When I think about, Me as an immigrant, as somebody who's from Bangladesh, I try to do this for my own community, right? There's hardly anybody that I know of, at least, from Bangladesh talking about this

[00:39:36] cesarmarin: No,

[00:39:37] raadseraj: I don't take particular pride in that and say, oh, I'm the only

[00:39:40] raadseraj: one. I wish there were more. But I am the only one, and so I gotta take that responsibility.

[00:39:44] raadseraj: And I also love talking about it. Because, I think there's Our people carry so much trauma with us. Like I said, not just from the not just because of the present moment, but because of again, generations and generations.

[00:39:55] raadseraj: of stuff that's happened before. And part of the challenge, I also think is when you talk about second as you talk about to do well being, you talk about wellness, you're talking about health, you talk about spirituality. Part of the issue is that because of how consumer wellness works, how consumer well being works, right?

[00:40:12] raadseraj: It's all productized. There's a particular there's a particular vision you get or an idea you have when you talk about wellness, right? And it's

[00:40:19] raadseraj: usually fuckin Glitter Fairies and Burning Man

[00:40:23] raadseraj: or Ultra lux, like athletic leisure wearing people

[00:40:28] raadseraj: drinking like 25 smoothies.

[00:40:30] raadseraj: It's not relatable. It's not fucking relatable. And I think part of what you said is really I think impactful because none of that shit matters. It's the stories that matter is the stories of transformation that matters the most. It's also good to segue to the last part of the conversation, which I'm really curious, like you spent 25 years at. CNN. You saw how mass media has played out. You're also probably paying attention to how mass media is actually mutating as we speak, right? Everybody's a mini propagandist in a way because of, you have little, you have a supercomputer in your hand and you've got Instagram and all this stuff. I think responsible use of storytelling and media goes hand in hand with responsible use of psychedelics and substances. 

[00:41:12] cesarmarin: Definitely. 

[00:41:13] raadseraj: How do you, as somebody who is very prominent and outspoken, both in your cohort, in your age cohort,

[00:41:19] raadseraj: but also generally in the community, how do you think about that responsibility?

[00:41:24] cesarmarin: It's, you know what it's really important, and you make a great point, and it's just, when you held your phone, it, something was really enlightening and you talked about how anyone can be a propagandist right now. Anyone can be. And when I first started to work at CNN you literally needed a studio, You needed a camera, you needed a control room, you needed a director.

[00:41:46] cesarmarin: You needed that to be punched up to a satellite that then had to come down from the satellite and you had to have a receiver and you received it. That's the only way you can get your voice out and you needed to pay money for that airtime. Now, everybody's got airtime.

[00:41:59] cesarmarin: Everyone does. Every single person has access to airtime and to this global audience, right?

[00:42:06] cesarmarin: So you're right. It is our responsibility. To do this correctly. It is our responsibility to share our stories and now we have that, that, that option. It's not, like before it's oh, if I'm not on a stage. No, if you have a story, tell your story. Use your mass media to tell this story to tell it the right way.

[00:42:23] cesarmarin: Because there is too many, hey, get rich quick or hey, have some micro dosing. Hey, take some acid. Hey, come to our retreat center. Hey, whatever it is. It's too easy. So there's a lot of, I have this adage that there's two types of people in the psychedelic world, right?

[00:42:41] cesarmarin: There's those who are manifesting love you wealth, and those who are manifesting fuck you wealth,

[00:42:46] cesarmarin: right? That love you wealth, I know that there's a lot more of us than them. And those who are creating that love you wealth, it's up to us to use our mass media platforms, whether it's me on simply cultivating wisdom, sharing my stories and look, trepidations that people over 50 have, and this is how psychedelics and microdosing helped me, or, Hey, you know what, look, I've partnered up with this company so you can grow, your own mushrooms at home, whatever it is it's up to us.

[00:43:14] cesarmarin: It's really up to us. We can't rely on mass media anymore. To tell us what is the truth, right? What is the truth at the end of the day, right? We all create our own truth, but we really can't trust mass media to give us an objective scene. And look and not that CNN was not objective. I worked there long enough to know that a script of mine, which was a sports script.

[00:43:38] cesarmarin: Okay. Had to go through two copy editors, right? Before it made air. And this was just five beat four.

[00:43:46] cesarmarin: So I know that stuff is vetted, but that doesn't mean that things have to be one sided, right? It can't be Trump took a shit breaking news. Trump walked off an airplane with a piece of toilet paper on his foot.

[00:44:01] cesarmarin: Breaking news,

[00:44:02] cesarmarin: Trump called somebody silly at breaking news. Can't because we become, and look, and I was in that world, BRaad. I was in there. What's next? What happened? What's going on? Breaking news. What did he do now? What are they doing now? What's Biden do? You go crazy. They literally program us to go crazy and they feed us that pilot take shrooms, tries it down plane in 20 minutes.

[00:44:25] cesarmarin: Oh shit. I can't go. I can't go anywhere. Cause I got to hear the story because it's, we're, they're programming us. They're programming us to want to hear their narrative. So it's up to us now. It's up to us. It's like the old remember, and this might be, I might be 10, 15 years older than you are.

[00:44:41] cesarmarin: But I don't know if you remember the movie broadcast news. I'm as mad as hell, I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore. That's what we have to do, but it has to be with love. Like I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore, but I'm going to lead with love. If we do that, there is there there's hope.

[00:45:00] cesarmarin: Because let's be honest, we're like right now in a time in humanity where it's we're like teetering on what could go happen? What could happen next? And here, Cesar, today's the best day of my life, . So where do I wanna 

[00:45:13] raadseraj: to, I think you're speaking to a very it's all of the above.

[00:45:17] raadseraj: And I think the point of what, what I think you and I are talking about is not joy and happiness, ignoring everything else. It's joy and happiness, despite

[00:45:27] cesarmarin: despite everything else. Correct. 

[00:45:29] raadseraj: the world's all, perhaps maybe always been crazy and mad and chaotic and violent and fucked up.

[00:45:35] cesarmarin: Yeah, people have been mean people who mean other sort of humanity didn't came kill Abel According to the stories, right? So it's like it's yeah, we've been horrible. 

[00:45:46] raadseraj: It's, and it's we have and I think we're psychedelics is really, they're really powerful as medicines is, and it's not just psychedelics, of course, like 

[00:45:53] raadseraj: meditation, like community, friendships,

[00:45:56] raadseraj: love.

[00:45:57] raadseraj: They're powerful because they take you out of your spell. They break the spell and go yeah, maybe I shouldn't take myself that seriously

[00:46:03] raadseraj: because at the day, I'm dead like anybody else.

[00:46:05] raadseraj: So why take it so seriously, right?

[00:46:07] raadseraj: Because is this illusion of control? Actually, it's funny, right? With control, you're fucked. If you don't have it, you're fucked. If you have too

[00:46:15] raadseraj: much of 

[00:46:15] cesarmarin: too much of it. 

[00:46:16] raadseraj: Yeah. So it's like, what is the right level of like flow between control chaos

[00:46:21] raadseraj: And then, letting go? 

[00:46:22] cesarmarin: yeah, and then maybe that's what it said, it's flow, it's not control it's it's that, you can have inventory and know where things are through your flow without it being controlling, because you're right, if you have too little of the control, it's bad, and if you have too much of it, it's also bad, so it's just, you made a good point, it's that flow, it's that flow state, yeah.

[00:46:42] raadseraj: Last question to you. Okay. So I imagine 50 or 54 was a milestone for you. What age would you consider to be the next milestone? I have a particular reason I'm asking.

[00:46:51] cesarmarin: Oh, wow. That's

[00:46:53] raadseraj: Do you imagine pausing at 80? Do you imagine pausing at 100?

[00:46:57] cesarmarin: pausing in what sense? Pausing and stopping working, pausing and stopping living, pausing in 

[00:47:01] raadseraj: The reason I'm asking, whatever that next stage is, what would you want, the current Cesar to know? If you're looking back.

[00:47:10] cesarmarin: I'd in other words, if it's me in my eighties I'd like to tell Cesar, just always keep going, never give up. You could be bent, but you can't be broken, right? And that's the idea that I really didn't realize that before.

[00:47:22] cesarmarin: Before I was like, ah, whatever, I wasn't even bending myself. I wasn't even bending. I wasn't taking myself to the bending point. And now it's keep to that bending point. And it's look, my mom's 80, right? And my mom is still thriving. And she actually, after she bought this necklace, she actually makes these she makes it.

[00:47:38] cesarmarin: So she's 80 and she's thriving. And she's still working. No. You know what I mean? That she's got a good life. Yes. That it's so it's, and it's funny Raad because after the CNN thing where it was like, there was moments of okay, like what's going to happen?

[00:47:52] cesarmarin: And there's moments still now where it's look, this is a business. It's starting, this isn't CNN money and it's where we're starting and hopefully, it's, since it's love you wealth, that wealth will, as we give, it continues to come back, and we'll compound interest. That's the, That's what we're manifesting, but I'm at the stage in my life, maybe if I was still at CNN in that doldrum world, I could be like, you know what, it's 60, it'll be good, I'll be done, whatever. But it's like right now it's this moment is so good right now that I can't even think like a week from now I want to enjoy this one.

[00:48:22] cesarmarin: I want to enjoy this moment. And there's still so much to do. There's still, I'm just starting, this, the comparable company is just starting, my, my teaching or my coaching, for people over 50 to be able to start safe and effective microdosing practices. It's just starting, the idea of me being part of, or helping create this space.

[00:48:41] cesarmarin: For veterans when they take that uniform off to come in and say, Hey, you know what? Let us help you. Let us give you a hug and let us teach you how to do some somatic healing through breath work and yoga because you really need it. I have a kid who's in the army gRaad. That's I know when he gets out and when he has that uniform, he's going to be surrounded by love because he's got incredibly wonderful people around him between his siblings and his mother and his friends and his fraternity brothers.

[00:49:04] cesarmarin: But there's a lot of those dudes that come out with nothing. So if I can create a space where they can come, and then maybe, you know what, Hey, instead of going through a whole bunch of SSRIs and a whole bunch of medication, I'm gonna try a microdosing protocol and see how that works. And then maybe, you know what, let's bring in a couple of guys who have thought like you and have been in the trenches with you and think like you guys do.

[00:49:24] cesarmarin: Because I'll be honest with you, I've seen my kid and I can nurture him and I know I brought him to the world, but I have no clue how he thinks he's been through stuff that. I have no idea that I, we can create a healing center like that. And then I'm not even started yet because I'd love to create some type of center to help underserviced, lower income and marginalized communities for people who have gotten that calling to heal where they can go somewhere and say, Hey, we're going to teach you how to use this medicine and it's not going to cost you 14, 000 to get a certificate.

[00:49:55] raadseraj: Right.

[00:49:55] cesarmarin: going to, we're going to find a way so that you can take this healing back to your community because your ancestors used these medicines and they were taken away from you. So come, let us teach you how to use them responsibly, respectfully, and see if you can take them back. That's, so I'm just starting, right?

[00:50:13] cesarmarin: There's so many other things that I still, that I have these. Manifestation of these dreams that I want to create that it's like I can't think about stopping right now I can't think about where it's like I'm going to be okay. And look, hopefully, if the idea is that to create wealth, to have more time with my family, with my kids, with myself, with enjoying life itself then yeah, but not until we get all these other things in place that are needed. Not until we try to help veterans as much as we can,

[00:50:43] cesarmarin: not until we hopefully have some type of system so that our communities can also have access to using these medicines correctly.

[00:50:52] cesarmarin: Then when that's done, then, then, okay, you know what? We served our mission. We, we accomplished and we'll go from there. But until then it's day one, baby. 

[00:51:01] raadseraj: Day one.

[00:51:02] raadseraj: Hell yeah, Cesar. Very well said. And I am with you on this mission and I wish you all the best. I really appreciate you spending the time with us. I think your energy is infectious and may you live long and prosper and also help everybody else prosper. Thanks so much for being here, Cesar.

[00:51:19] cesarmarin: Thank you. I appreciate you. I appreciate everything you're doing. Continue to do what you're doing, man. We're strong when we're together, even if we're minorities.

[00:51:26] raadseraj: I appreciate you, man. Thank you so much.

[00:51:28] cesarmarin: Awesome. ​